What the Fuck is Frat Boy Conservatism?
On Friday Salon.com ran a piece from editor Joan Walsh entitled “Frat-boy conservatism in the Rose Garden.” The column reflects on the actions of Daily Caller reporter Neil Munro, specifically when he shamelessly interrupted President Obama’s speech about the executive order to stop the deportation of young children who were brought to the United States illegally by their parents. The article scolds Munro’s behavior and then goes on to reference several other instances of GOP disrespect for the Commander in Chief.
…it’s unbelievable how wingnuts treat this man with such unprecedented and bullying disrespect: from Rep. Joe Wilson screaming “You lie” during Obama’s 2009 speech to a joint session of Congress, to Speaker John Boehner denying him his choice of dates for another congressional address (for the first time in history) last fall, to Donald Trump’s persistent, humiliating demands for the president to show him his papers (with no rebuke from ally Mitt Romney).
…
Conservatism has always been associated with deference to authority, but lately it’s only for authority they respect. The Romney campaign has been glorying in this new form of frat-boy conservatism, first sending campaign supporters to heckle Obama adviser David Axelrod during a press conference, and yesterday sending its bus to circle and disrupt an Obama event, honking its horn.
Now, you’ll find no argument from me on a lot of this. Yes there are a lot of reasons to be upset with Obama. There are a lot of reasons to dislike Obama. But I doubt I’m alone in believing that no matter who holds the office of president, you respect the office. I’m reminded of a quote from Band of Brothers in which Major Richard Winters informs his former incompetent and tyrannical commander Captain Herbert Sobel, who attempted to avoid saluting the recently promoted Winters, that “you salute the rank, not the man.” I’d like to think that readers of this website, the majority of whom are both fraternity men and self proclaimed patriots, subscribe to that notion. In short, Neil Munro is an attention seeking douche bag who needs to shut the fuck up.
I’m also not really a fan of Joe Wilson yelling “you lie” during Obama’s 2009 speech. Although I’ll admit that C-SPAN would provide infinitely more entertainment if Congress devolved into the British House of Commons, or better yet if congressmen started beating the shit out of each other with walking sticks again.
“Tune into C-SPAN this Friday night for FRIDAY NIGHT STICK FIGHTS! It’s time to fili-bust some ass!” (*cue exploding graphics*)
The rest of the grievances listed are just petty politics, which is something that is incredibly annoying and counterproductive, but also something for which Democrats are equally guilty. My problem isn’t with Walsh’s complaints, but with the title of her story, and her subsequent branding of these annoying, abrasive political tactics as “frat-boy conservatism.” She’s basically using “Frat-boy” as a euphemism for douche bag. But what’s interesting is that by branding it “frat-boy” she also tries to convey that ONLY conservatives are guilty of these sorts of actions, because to call upon an image of a frat boy is to call upon an image of white privilege, i.e. conservatives.
Even if she was using the term “frat boy” because many of these actions were loud and obnoxious, two traits that we are admittedly guilty of carrying every now and then, it still doesn’t quite fit. You want loud and obnoxious? Go find a protest with a drum circle. Go watch videos of the Occupy protests. In the end “frat boy” seems to fit her point so well because of what it calls to mind, white privilege, conservatives, etc. Loud and obnoxious might be an intended part of the image, but if it were the most important part surely she could have found a better way to make this point.
I really don’t even know where to begin on how much of a load of bullcrap that is. I could start with the fact that there are so many diverse members of fraternities (and sororities) that this image she is trying to create is basically a cheap stereotype. I could point out that there are plenty of liberal “frat boys” out there. I could create a laundry list of ways George W. Bush was similarly disrespected while in office. In fact feel free to do so in the comments, we can call it hipster liberalism, since all Democrats are TOTALLY filthy hipsters. But really it’s better to just keep it simple: Labeling this political behavior as “frat-boy conservatism” paints a one sided picture of what is actually a two sided and ever deepening problem in American politics. A problem so divisive that it might eventually HAVE to be settled with stick fights. Still, I’m most annoyed that calling these actions “frat-boy conservatism” does everything I listed all the while throwing a group of people who have no direct relation to this story (Greek Life) under the bus.
So please Joan Walsh, find a better way to get your point across. Just call a douche bag a douche bag, because Neil Munro certainly is a douche bag.
- [image via Salon.com]
Explain to me why I should be upset with a journalist actually doing his job, something the White House press corp clearly doesn’t. Sure, you shouldn’t interrupt the President, and Joe Frat Wilson’s “you lie” was definitely uncalled for. But if you actually follow politics, you should know this White House does everything it can to dodge a question about its unconstitutional agenda (i.e. bypassing Congress on immigration reform, among the many others). I applaud this guy for actually doing what he’s paid to do: vetting the President of the United States.
13 years ago at 4:35 pmConservatives and liberals both agree that the “journalist” was out of line in knowingly interrupting the Commander in Chief’s prepared remarks. Your position is extreme.
13 years ago at 5:48 pmThe “Journalist’s” name is Joan. That means he is actually a she.
13 years ago at 6:36 pmIt’s anchorMAN, not anchorLADY. Women do not belong in a newsroom.
13 years ago at 6:52 pmI JUST BURNED MY TONGUE.
13 years ago at 8:45 pm^^^^ Their is a better forum for voicing your opinion than interrupting the President during a speech. I agree that something needs to be said, it just doesn’t need to be said there.
13 years ago at 8:54 pmI missed a ^. Fuck laps.
13 years ago at 8:55 pmLace ’em up again. It’s “there” not “their”.
13 years ago at 9:18 pm“Conservatism has always been associated with deference to authority, but lately it’s only for authority they respect.”
I think the “frat-boy” reference comes from that part. Fraternities are very authoritarian, clearly (the importance of pledging/seniority pretty much says enough there). Conservatism has historically shared the ideal of a relatively high degree of respect for authority, like Walsh said. I think it goes without saying, however, that frat guys generally don’t defer to all types of authority, hence the “only for authority they respect” piece. Well this article was, refreshingly, less of a conservative rant than I thought it would be, I think you missed the point perhaps. That said, I haven’t read anything on this matter aside from what is posted with the article, so I could be missing something.
That said, I may be giving dear Joanie too much credit here, she may have just been associating frat-boy with douche-bag. As a frat guy myself, I’m clearly not on board with that. That said, I think you should probably get over it, or stop strengthening the association with this website. Look at this website (just a look at the few prior comments on this article will suffice) and tell me you’re surprised that frat-boy is synonymous with douche-bag in many circles. I follow this site a bit because a lot of the shit on here is hysterical, but I think it’s a bit backwards to complain about being stereotyped when you write for TotalFratMove. To be clear, not necessarily bashing this website (I enjoy it, I do think it probably does more harm than good though), just saying it’s probably not the place to complain that people are associating “frat-boy” with “douchebag.”
13 years ago at 4:54 pmYou make a lot of good points. I appreciate that. In regard to your defiance of authority suggestion, even if that were the case (which it could be) using “frat boy” still harkens back to the whole white privilege thing. I mean yeah we’re a relatively defiant bunch, but are we SO defiant that that aspect alone makes it worth using “frat boy” as the label? I’m not so sure. There are definitely other intentions.
As far as it being somewhat ironic complaining about all of this from a site called “TotalFratMove,” I definitely grant you that, and the fact that we probably don’t help the stereotype, but I’d counter by saying that spreading a stereotype was never our intention. I’ve written many times before that this is a humor/parody site, not to be taken very seriously, let alone taken as literal (which many people do). One of the reasons TFMNews was created was to address that sort of thing, so in that sense this is actually the perfect place to complain about/rebut a column like Ms. Walsh’s.
13 years ago at 5:50 pm“I think it’s a bit backwards to complain about being stereotyped when you write for TotalFratMove….it’s probably not the place to complain that people are associating “frat-boy” with douchebag.” Correct.
13 years ago at 5:51 pmIn my experience as a seasoned Chili’s employee (no pun intended), I have seen a near infinite number of people who lack perspective. There are far too many in positions of influence, power, and reach who exhibit qualities best reserved for the cast of 16 and Pregnant. While I do not think any community has a responsibility to defend itself against an onslaught of idiocy, especially when that community is comprised of generally reasonable and well-educated individuals, the unfortunate associations that get made with fraternity life call for at least some instances of coherent, structured defense. The esteemed employees of Chili’s, myself included, commend TotalFratMove for their venture in approaching this topic, albeit in a venue where it may not be given the attention in deserves.
13 years ago at 5:58 pm^Fucking chilis guy
13 years ago at 8:10 pmI’m not sure how I respond to a response but @Bacon: Appreciate the response, and yea I wouldn’t say “defiant” is too high on the frat guy adjective list, I guess it was just the selective defiance, if you will, that I was pointing to, and perhaps Joan was as well. But yes I agree on the other intentions for sure.
I thought you would probably say that, and it is valid, you guys aren’t to be blamed for the stupid followers/readers out there. Unfortunately like you mentioned the reality is that those stupid people are out there reading and living by TFM. Finally, that makes sense about TFM News, I also realized it is fairly ridiculous for me to say what this “place” is and isn’t good for haha, seeing that that’s dictated by you guys essentially, but you got what i meant.
13 years ago at 8:44 pmI made the mistake of clicking on that link and reading the article and some of it’s comments. It truly was the hypocrisy of the Left on full display. I don’t recommend anyone else read that shit, especially the comments. The disgusting ignorance and “holier-than-thou” attitude of those people makes my blood boil. FUCK LIBERALS.
13 years ago at 4:54 pmI would just say: fuck holier than thou asshats. Both sides have them, and they don’t help advance any issue or cause. They’re noise for the sake of noise.
13 years ago at 8:20 pmThose comments are very atrocious. Left-side at it’s finest. I do agree, fuck holier than thou asshats. That comment section was full of them.
13 years ago at 9:53 pmThat comments section was disgusting. They refused to even listen to the other perspective and simply resorted to name calling when they realized they were wrong. People like that make me sick.
13 years ago at 5:54 amFuck obama, his view towards this country’s well being can be summed up best by one video
13 years ago at 5:00 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1Hai7ZcF6U&feature=related
Although this is a cheap stereotype, did you really have to include the link? This gives that Commie site and her so many more hits than she deserves. The only way to extinct people like her is to not even pay attention to them.
13 years ago at 5:02 pmI have the choice to salute neither the man nor the rank, no matter if its the president. We, the people, created this government and hold the ultimate power even over the president, and by God I respectfully reserve the right to say whatever I damn well please to those that choose to serve me.
13 years ago at 5:17 pm^this. Too many ultra-patriots think patriotism is blind. Think for yourself, act for yourself.
“A free man is compelled in nothing but his own.” -The_ChiIi’s_Guy
13 years ago at 6:20 pm^^This. The president is a public servant who is not immune from ridicule or criticism. The only respect he gets is the respect he earns. The reason W. commanded respect as president is because he comported himself in a presidential manner while in office. The same cannot be said of Obama. He’s spent the bulk of his first term disrespecting Republican leaders in Congress with childish tantrums, apologizing to foreign enemies for non-existent American “transgressions”, demonizing hard workers in the private sector, and using taxpayer money to set up fundraisers for his own re-election.
13 years ago at 7:00 pm^^^ Right, but like I replied to an earlier comment, there’s a difference between kneeling before him or saluting him and having the common courtesy to let him speak. There is a time and place to speak up- during the middle of a prepared speech at the white house is neither.
13 years ago at 9:02 pmPeople really do not grasp respecting the office of POTUS because of what it is, not who is currently occupying it. I’ve had this argument multiple times. I dislike Obama and everything about him to put it bluntly, but he’s still the president of the greatest country in the world. I want him to succeed, because a president’s success is the country’s success. That doesn’t mean I believe his policies are going to help Americans, but I still want whatever is best for the country. Most people do not seem to grasp that.
13 years ago at 5:42 pmHe gets it. The ideological and tactical trench warfare in Congress is only further proof that refusing to compromise and find common ground derails any movement forward. At the end of the day, there are millions out there without jobs. While we disagree how those jobs are best created, it’s a disgrace that employment rates are being sacrificed for political ratings in the the never-ending re-election campaign.
13 years ago at 5:53 pmThere’s a difference between wanting America to succeed and wanting Obama to succeed. Wanting Obama to succeed means you want him to implement his policy platform, which basically consists of a wish-list for the radical Democrat left and will further cripple America with anemic growth, unsustainable entitlements, and a weakened geopolitical standing in the world. That may be a success in Obama’s mind, but it would not be a success for America.
13 years ago at 7:03 pm[Insert smug “frat boy” term to gain support and qualify my liberal douche article’s argument]
13 years ago at 5:46 pmCan we really say that she’s wrong? Even the more serious TFM posts (posts in the “Discussion” section, news topics, etc) reek of extremism. We’ve created a terrible stereotype–it’s time we admit it. By day’s end, there will be posts advocating disrespect for our Commander in Chief (sprinkled with a bitterly racist comment or other extreme position). Bacon engaged in intellectual dishonesty by pitching “diversity” and moderate, rational thought to a TFM audience. Even a cursory glance of this site legitimizes Walsh’s piece.
13 years ago at 5:46 pmIf you take seriously the things that are supposed to be humorous on this site then I can’t really help you. We cannot control how people read things, we can only explain our intent. To me that’s the more important thing to understand.
But I would seriously like you to point out one news post written by the staff that “reeks of extremism.” That is a total fabrication.
13 years ago at 6:16 pmNot necessarily because anyone can come to this site. TotalFratMove does not exclude who has the right to express an opinion, so how can we stereotype fraternities without knowledge of population?
Also, this site is actually one of the better if you consider the genre. Shit, look at the fucking retards who post daily on twitter, youtube, etc.
13 years ago at 6:45 pm^that was in response to Mr. FRATington
13 years ago at 6:46 pmWhile the Salon column’s author, Joan Walsh, certainly intended “Frat-boy” to be a derisive slur on rowdy conservative journalists, I would argue that the America’s Free Press has not only a right but a duty to question the Administration when it flagrantly oversteps its Constitutional Authority. If the President actually took questions from the Press more often, the ambush questioning would be unnecessary. Fundamentally, the Constitution and the Presidency are more important than the man behind the Resolute Desk. And if rudely interrupting to challenge our President on his Un-Constitutional action is what is required, then that is what is required. Congress has debated both comprehensive immigration reform (during the Bush Administration) and the Dream Act – and in both cases Congress unable to muster the votes for passage. The President has no authority to usurp Congress’ role under the guise of Prosecutorial Discretion. Fraternity men love our country deeply – maybe almost as much as our Military who defend her. And if being called a Fratboy Conservative means I support challenging this unconstitutional power grab by an out of control President, then I’m proud to be a Fratboy Conservative.
13 years ago at 6:25 pm